tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post4811239114928141644..comments2023-07-21T08:31:52.663-07:00Comments on Angina Pectoris: Abusing Jesus' DivinityJohn Paullinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12286709775482914784noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-11976147786955659742010-04-04T19:29:07.661-07:002010-04-04T19:29:07.661-07:00Those are excellent points, Jon. A few things I w...Those are excellent points, Jon. A few things I would want to push back on, though (and maybe its time to move on), is that the rural world Berry creates is beset on all sides. Take the novel Jayber Crow for example. The agrarian characters are continually marginalized for their antiquated agricultural methods and traditions. This happens through more profitable farms that exist outside of Port William, and through recalcitrant family members from within the community itself. <br />Secondly, Hauerwas and Yoder in my opinion, actually reflect the biblical model of the Christian community quite well. Take John's usage of the word 'world' for example. Jesus consistently sets his disciples and the world in complete antithesis to one another. The Church is to be set apart from the world. Hauerwas understands though, I think, that the biblical way of understanding the church as its own colony can only be one that is 'set on a hill'. I don't think they see the separateness of the community of Christ so much in terms of its spacial proximity as its radically upside down values. Anyway, I enjoy thinking about these things, great thoughts, Jon.John Paullinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12286709775482914784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-57301104140277673142010-04-02T19:11:12.505-07:002010-04-02T19:11:12.505-07:00Yes, I suppose I do think Port William is too idyl...Yes, I suppose I do think Port William is too idyllic, and I think it differs from the Acts 2 church in a significant way. What makes the Acts 2 church compelling is that the community exists in the midst of mounting opposition. As soon as the church is persecuted it flourishes. Port Royal, on the other hand, exists at a safe distance from the outside world. It is rural. Berry's model is compelling, for the same reason that Yoder and Hauerwass are compelling, but I think this world/church separation needs to be examined. The challenge of the incarnation is gracious holiness in the midst of an antagonistic world, not apart from it.<br /><br />Your question is good about ecclesiology and cristology, but as long as the Church is to act as Christ's representative on earth, I don't think we should delineate too strongly between the two.Jon Fursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11224414515875067495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-72533364341045506082010-03-30T01:04:31.200-07:002010-03-30T01:04:31.200-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.幸雨https://www.blogger.com/profile/17636597633464808247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-30055770402372618222010-03-27T19:12:05.321-07:002010-03-27T19:12:05.321-07:00I like those two markers, Jon. You're right a...I like those two markers, Jon. You're right about Simon, he fits your categories. It is important that we don't reduce christology in fiction to principles that arise that correspond to Christ. That would be another drift into a kind of Bultmannian fiction reading. Yet, I wonder if this is not asking too much of fiction. In my opinion, Berry presents a ingenious ecclesiology. It isn't any more soapy than Acts chapter 2. Now, I don't want to blur the lines between Christ and the Church. But, if you must have Christ in your fiction reading I submit that you have him in Berry's picture of membership in Port William. <br /><br />My suspicion, although we've never talked about it, is that you believe Port William to be a tad too idyllic. If that's the case, I want you to expound.John Paullinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12286709775482914784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-75822312593098136952010-03-20T15:01:54.790-07:002010-03-20T15:01:54.790-07:00I'm willing to be proven wrong on this. How d...I'm willing to be proven wrong on this. How does Berry benefit our understanding of Christ?<br /><br />John, good question. I've thought about it and I think that perhaps two things need to be present if a fiction author wants to portray Christ in a compelling way; transcendence and physicality. So, even in your beloved Christ-figure of Simon in the Lord of the Flies, I think that it would hold up. You have an intensely physical scene of Simon floating cruciform in the water overlaid with supernatural phosphorescence.<br /><br />Nate, if you're reading this I want to hear what you think.Jon Fursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11224414515875067495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-85765541970506719622010-03-14T15:02:11.750-07:002010-03-14T15:02:11.750-07:00What would a good orthodox Christology look like i...What would a good orthodox Christology look like in ecology. Couldn't you say that Berry's understanding of restraint in agriculture, and his zeal for membership within the communities one is given be evidence of a kind of Christology?<br /><br />I'm not sure I would even feel like Christology has to be apparent in fiction for it to be compelling. What makes a person binitarian in the way they carry out their secular vocation?John Paullinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12286709775482914784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-38120350673390078182010-03-14T11:03:29.947-07:002010-03-14T11:03:29.947-07:00I'm sorry Julie, I knew this would come out.
...I'm sorry Julie, I knew this would come out.<br /><br />In my opinion he's a much better essayist than fiction writer. His fiction tends to be a bit sentimental.Jon Fursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11224414515875067495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585134877503047781.post-39237686552585389522010-03-13T14:07:58.309-08:002010-03-13T14:07:58.309-08:00First of all, it's Wendell Berry. Second, what...First of all, it's Wendell Berry. Second, what do you mean that his fiction is "a bit soapy"?Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11344624747788377400noreply@blogger.com